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deirdre
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« on: April 22, 2007, 06:00:56 PM »

What will the national motto of France be if S
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 11:44:00 AM by deirdre » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2007, 02:42:12 PM »

Hey Dear Deirdre,

I am so glad you managed to get these two charts...

Just like to point out some interesting things in the two of them. First of all each one's Sun conjuncts the other's Ascendent. Meaning the Sun of Segolene Royal conjuncts Sarkozy's ASC and viceversa, which seems to indicate that they are really each other's contender. This tells me that each of them secretly admire the other and they will certainly bring the best of each other.

The other aspect that called my attention is the T-square they both have between Uranus opp. Chiron and apex Neptune. Being too idealistic bording on unrealistic is one the major problems with a cardinal aspect like this. Hopefully they will project this onto each other, thinking that is always the other who lacks the integrity and who needs to have their feet on the ground.

She also has her Saturn conjunct that apex Neptune, so i guess she would get more frustrated than him,but at the same time, as it's always the case with almighty Saturn, perhaps more practical.
I wouldn't want to be her enemy, since she must get really angry if her demands are not met.
Incredible thing the birth chart and she looks sooooo femenine and sweet.....

They both have Mars in the 7th House which tends to be somehow too argumentative at times but she also has Venus and Pluto there, which means great attraction to powerful people and power in general.

He has his Mars conjunct his Moon in the 7th, so he really got his match in her. He also has a fixed T-square with apex Saturn so i'd like to see how he reacts when people don't do what he says.
I am from the same generation of Uranus in Cancer and Neptune in Libra. World harmony and the ideal relationship are some of our aspirations and fantasies, and home never seems to be what home is for most people.

We really need to find it inside of us, rather than in a particular geographical place or house.....
so who do you think it will win?

Sincerely
Cristina
« Last Edit: April 25, 2007, 12:44:07 PM by paloma » Logged

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deirdre
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2007, 07:21:33 AM »

Dear Cristina,

I love how you plugged right into the Sun Ascendant connection. I hadnt noticed that at all yet. The image I get from that is an aggressive yin yang, an association of secret admiration for each other and bringing out eachother's best.

You ask who will win. I am not deciding yet. I do have my ideas but first I am looking at S
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 05:32:33 AM by deirdre » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2007, 03:32:38 AM »

Hello Deidre,
 
My initial thought upon viewing the charts, was that Mr. Sarkozyx would win the election...that was my instinctive reaction.  I've felt for the past couple of years that this is a monumental time for Aquarians, and the fact that Ms. Royal has an Aquarius ascendant shows her to be a worthy opponent. Visually, their charts are quite different.  Ms. Royal has the majority of her planest in the western hemisphere, with a preponderance of planets in the 7,8, and 9th houses.  This tells me that she sets her goals high, and that she is greatly influenced by her environment and the people with whom she comes in contact with.  If she were a car, her environment would be her fuel.  Looking at Mr. Sarkozyxs' chart, he has more planets in the eastern hemisphere, with several in the first three houses...and in the last three as well.  This indicates that he has a strong individual personality, and that if he were a vehicle he'd be a standard...always prepared to self start. I agree with the comparisons made by the previous poster, who did a great job stating her conclusions.  There are a lot more things I see going on between the charts,without quite knowing how to express it in astrological terms...so I look forward to reading more of your interpretations Deidre.

rena s. 

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deirdre
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2007, 05:21:45 AM »

Regarding the exact ten o'clock time for Nicolas Sarkogy, this is from the French astrology site, Astrotheme, which is usually quite reliable. Elsewhere, I found no exact confirmation. In fact, some sites officially said "unconfirmed". When I took a look at his chart again and saw that he is an Aquarius with Chiron at 0
« Last Edit: May 03, 2007, 12:47:14 AM by deirdre » Logged

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paloma
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 12:56:22 PM »

Hello dear Astrology Secret Revealed readers.

I want to clarify that i will not be analyzing the french political situation from the rigors of politics, but more from my personal perspective. I am part french culturally, and i just spent one year and a half in Paris. It is from this perspective that i write the following.


The discussion transpiring the whole electional process is about France being stuck in the past, not having embraced liberalism and globalization fully, and holding on to old social and economical models. For the past years, french society is going through a transpiring malaise (unease), if not blocking fear; the kind that shows up prior to change, real change. Both candidates to the presidency are aware of this challenge, that is to bring France up to speed. Both are ready to take the task, and the responsibility to bring structural transformation to the french political and economical system, and to the french society in general.

This campaign has the peculiarity, from both sides of the fence, of having brought the national identity discussion up front. Why is that? Probably because France entering the globalization model feels like a defeat to the idea France has of Itself: 'la grande France' (the big France) will be like everybody else... and that for the french spirit, is quite painful. So the reassuring discourse both candidate are bringing to their people sounds like a self esteem remedy to the painful future that both know needs to be embraced. In order for France to step into the future, something close to the core of it's identity must die; something must be let go of, so the new can come in.

When Sarkozy, two days ago, attacked fervently the spirit of the May 68 social revolution, he was intentionally debilitating one aspect of the french identity, that is, it's revolutionary spirit. Many social changes were achieved in 1968, but maybe the strongest one was the organization of a powerful labor movement. After may 68 the french working class became a political power. The near coming changes will bring much resistance from this sector of society, who will be fighting to preserve their social system, and  the rights they have fought and gained in the past.

This will be one of the major transformational axis for France in the next years. Sarkozy, maybe inspired by Margaret Tatcher's legacy, is ready and willing to confront the polarity, the disruption and the possible painful violence coming up with change. His discourse is sending a powerful friendly  message to corporations and neo-conservative voters. If we add the fact that his message, in the past years, has been of zero tolerance to the social situation of migration, and to avoid bringing a solution to the suburban ethnical alienation that exploded last October 2005 in a wave of violence (a way of disguising a strong racist discourse behind the mask of safety), we can assume that his presidency is far from being harmonious and cool; we can actually assume that some violent and destabilizing episodes will be experienced in the near future for France; with it, the consequential repressive response.

Mrs. Royal has not  articulate such a polarized and strong position; her voice is more ambiguous, with less precision on the pressing issues. She presents a model of participation, with a  strong democratic base; she has powerful ideas about education and economics, but her campaign has been mostly one of proving her value as a possible president (first within her own party as neo social democrat), and of counter responding to Sarkozy's  polarized style of doing politics, reacting and answering, instead of being offensive in her propositions. She is steady, focused and slowly she has been able to let her voice transpire with authority and strength. Her candidacy appeals not only to her followers (the socialists), but to all the people who opposes Sarkozy's style and agenda.

The next debate is crucial for Mrs. Royal, as a couple of months ago, she surprised everybody on her first television forum showing that her strength is her personality; she projected an inner power that seduced profoundly the people of France. This appearance was pivotal in the campaign and marked a major shift in her projection.

So, this was my opinion. Now the astrology.

What is going on with France?

http://planetwaves.net/chart.php?c=France

I am using the Fifth Republic chart of October 5th, 1958, 6:30 PM.

If you want to look at the other Republics charts, the dates and times are at the bottom.

My first look at the chart is hey!Chiron is making and exact opposition to the degree to natal Uranus, and is heading towards it's Chiron return, two degrees away. Before touching it's Chiron return, it will retrograde, touch the Uranus conjunction again in February 2008, and then in March 2008 conjunct Chiron. Natal Chiron is in Aquarius in the eleventh house opposing Uranus in Leo in the fifth.

I feel something is coming back. Chiron in Aquarius in the eleventh house points out to the strong collective model France has been for the world in the second half of the 20th century. It brings to me the idea that behind the model of freedom and transgressive energy that the Uranus opposition brings forth there is a wound, neglected and hidden, behind the ideal that has been built. It points out to the external exportation of an intelectual and political ideal that is not lived up internally as a society. France, has become a conservative society, that seems to have lost it's fighting revolting spirit to self complacency. This Chiron return and Uranus opposition feels like stiring the pot, like moving a dormant energy that after having fought for the well being of all, has installed itself in security, comfort and individualism. I think Chiron is awakening Uranus, as a reminder that there is no individuality without a group and a common ideal, and that viceversa, there is no collective without fully aware individuals expressing themselves. Isn't that the power of elections and democracy? I think Uranus will come out in the votes, i think the passage of Chiron is manifesting itself first as the Satrun aspect of fear, and conservation, and will then move into the Uranus dimension of breaking the fosilized structures to move into new territory. What does it mean? It means first that these elections are already breaking the mold from the past with a new model of campaign unprecedented in french history; second, (and taking on the lesson from the past elections in which the majority of the voters were forced to vote against Lepen in favor of Chirac) these elections bring a new awareness (Chiron) on how to vote responsibly. It is as if French people are relearning to vote out of the mechanical tradition of ideologies and parties, and are going beyond their personal political boundaries to explore a new vote. This  all feels like Uranus opposed by Chiron to me. Chiron is reminding the collective arena (Aquarius/eleventh house) of the individual freedom (Uranus in the fifth) to express oneself, and the political and social power of this process.


This chart has a Cancer Moon exactly on the Nadir. It is a 8 degree Cancer point, close to the Aries point Cardinal square. When looking at this Moon i felt -really felt- the love France has for itself, and the love that the people of France have for their land, their culture, their country. This is not to be taken lightly, i think. There is a powerful emotional, feminine and maternal energy underlying France Cartesian personality; and i think this emotion condensed at the base of the chart, is the fuel of this country, and will play an important role in this election.

My take, from France's point of view, is that Sarkozy is strongly connected to the healing and transformative spirit of the Chiron return. He seems to bring some polarity and some painful confrontations that might ignite the fighting spirit of the individuals awakening to the need of collectivity. He has both the voice of conservation and change that seems to fit this configuration. He also plays out, by opposition, the voice of the wound, and the wounded: the invisibility of the migrants. I believe there is a deeper discussion to be had regarding how badly France has managed the migration situation, and how the freedom preached into the world is not applied internally within it's own society. This would bring out the painful results of colonialism and of generational guilt. Sarkozy is putting his finger on this wound, and will bring much awarness to this issue, if elected.

I think, on the other hand, that Royal might be more connected with the Moon energy of the chart; an energy that is not as strongly activated by transits, but has a maternal and strong feminine echo the day of the election. On May 6th, Ceres will be right on the same degree as the ascendant of France's chart, pointing out to a strong nurturing female energy being front stage. Ceres will be squaring within a long orb, this Cancer Moon, and trining Uranus in the fifth. Who knows...

Sarkozy has his Lunar nodes right into the Cancer/Capricorn axis of the chart. His South Node conjuncts France's Moon; so, he has been surfing the emotional patriotism of the people, bringing from the past, and the collective subconscious some memories of identity and belonging.  His South Node is right on the top of his chart, in the tenth, making this past his authority. I feel this plays strongly in his favor. His North node is therefore on the top of France's chart making him the big boss.

Another player in the chart is Saturn transiting the fifth house of the country's chart, and one degree away from having opposed Chiron. It seems that the conservative aspect of Saturn has been playing strong these past months, and it still has an influence in the individual expression of the chart; maybe the fact that it is moving away from the angle, might bring less fear into the mix, allowing Uranus taste for the new, and experimental nature to express itself? What would that be? Voting for a woman?

I find Royal's chart a bit weak in relationship to France's chart; her strong Virgo and Libra nature plays well into France's heavy sixth house of the working people, the working class; but Virgo is intercepted (that is kind of swallowed) into the sixth house, and her Sun is in the last degree of Virgo. It feels like 'not strong enough'.

I am not making a prediction; i think in the next few days things will be moving a lot, and that the next debate is crucial for the election. Maybe we could take a look at the chart and see what's coming. With more time soon...

Au revoir!

Paloma

First Republic: September 22, 1792, 9:18 am, Paris
Second Republic: February 24, 1848 6:00 pm, Paris
Third Republic: September 4, 1870 2:30 pm, Paris
Fourth Republic: October 10, 1946 2:40 pm, Paris
Fifth Republic: October 5, 1958, 12:00 am, CET, Paris

« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 01:15:17 PM by paloma » Logged

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deirdre
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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2007, 07:08:00 AM »

The Debate
It used to be that Sarkozy could not contain his brutal political aggression, but during Wednesday
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 07:18:46 AM by deirdre » Logged

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